OR: The Difference Between Editting and Reporting the News...
Published on August 31, 2004 By CrispE In Politics
I attended a recent showing of "Outfoxed" which was billed by those that I had heard speak of it as a left wing attempt at bashing Rupert Murdoch and Foxnews for right wing bias in editting the news to fit the propoganda mechanism that is the current right wing administration. There were descriptions that included "poor quality filming and camera work" as well as "editting issues" that made the film in part unwatchable. However, the film raises several issues that should be considered regardless of your political persuasion because the issue of news reporting is central in a republic to the decision making process of the people.

Thomas Jefferson (who as President received criticsm quite often, sometimes very undeserved) said that the country was better off with a "free press and not a free government" than vice-versa. What Jefferson meant by a free press was that the media that reports the news should take a critical eye to what government did to ensure that the people were getting both sides of the argument the government would present.

Governments have their own information dissemanation methods including spokespeople to voice their own points of view as well as contacts within the "edittorial community" (the talking heads and pundits who bombard us with their opinions of what the personalities of politics are doing). The news organizations then must take pains to scrutinize the information provided as well as digging nto the issues that face us and present us with all sides.

The history of propoganda in the world is full of examples of when the press does not take on the aspect of presenting the public with a well rounded look at issues. Consider PRAVDA in the old Soviet Union. The purpose of PRAVDA was to tell the people that the Soviet Union was the best place in the world, everything was getting better and better and say problems were temporary and that sooner rather than later everyone would be living the good life. All people needed to do was what the government thought was best for them, not question, and accept that their sacrifice was worthwhile.

Is this the argument Outfoxed makes? It certainly takes Fox, fox reporters and producers and personalities (Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity and Brit Hume) to task for multiple occurences of bias in mixing opinion with news until the line between the two are so blurred that the viewer would be hard pressed to tell where one starts and the other ends. But further, it illustrates the connection between making money by all news organizations and content of broadcasts. This includes the major networks as well as CNN.

Many of you might think (as I did at one time) that CNN was the balance to Fox but this is now in question in my own mind because the methods of "spinning" that Fox is often accused of are widespread on CNN in an attempt to keep advertising dollars that might leave with lower ratings. So, does that mean that the advertisers are really in control of the news media and the ultimate determination of what we see and how we see it?

To answer this you have to ask yourself what the advertisers want you to see. Do they want you to question the government? Is uncertainty in the future to their advantage? Do you buy more stuff when you feel good or unsure?

Personally I think that the smoke and mirrors in the stock market may be the best indication of this. Consider the unemployment rate and the increases we have seen in inflation and unrest and the world and there does seem to be a disconnect between the reality and how the news is portrayed in the media. Questioning by all news sources is muted and we are constantly reminded that the new car, house, and job are just around the corner.

Remind you of anything?


Comments (Page 8)
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on Sep 06, 2004
RATM....gotcha....so if you educate the kids whose parents you killed for political dissent, it makes you a humanitarian?
on Sep 06, 2004
Guevera, who they are releasing a movie about as we write "The Motorcycle Diaries" is well worth a look if you are interested in his background.


I am very interested in Guevara, and would suspect that a good deal of the material is gleaned from his most prominent biographer, Daniel James, whose books on Che I have read.

Personally, I take an ambivalent position towards Che, but to use him as an icon for a group that "opposes oppression" is pretty durned ironic. When Che served as Castro's right hand man, he was rather brutal in response to his opposition. To say that was necessary for the political stability of Cuba is an argument I fail to embrace; as an island nation, it would have been much more expedient to have exiled those opponents.

Personally, I am an advocate for lifting sanctions against Cuba; however, many human rights watchdog groups have a completely different take on the "fair treatment of dissidents" in Cuba than does RATM.

RATM, I have a few honest questions for you. Have you been to Cuba? Have you spoken with the political dissidents currently imprisoned there to make your analysis? For that matter, have you interviewed the thousands of dissidents currently in exile in the US as to their feelings of Castro's treatment of his opponents? Many of them have a far different take than the one you provide. If your source of information is simply that distributed by RATM (I don't question their intelligence, by the way, and find it ironic that you questioned Dylan's by implication), then I suggest you read a wider variety of views to get a clearer picture.
on Sep 06, 2004
Che Guevara was outspoken against the USSR and parts of Asia for violating human rights.


All the talk about Che was this and Che was that, I think this for me is going to spark me into researching about the life, the man, and cutting through the myths to find out who and what Che Guevara was, as for supporting the DNC, I guess it could be considered the right choice, but they should remember the DNC supports BIGGER Federal Government (which would lead to more control over people) that is a staple of the Party, so it would have been better to support a third-independent party more in line with the views of freedom from oppression.

I will try to put a piece together on Che Guevara later today if I can finish it that fast.
on Sep 06, 2004
All the talk about Che was this and Che was that, I think this for me is going to spark me into researching about the life, the man, and cutting through the myths to find out who and what Che Guevara was,


I look forward to seeing the piece.

As for myself, being a former socialist, I read about Che extensively. I have read, among other things, the Bolivian Diaries and the biography of Che by Daniel James, a very well researched study on the man. I find him enigmatic, and, while I would not have taken the course he did, I nevertheless admire him for his conviction. I stand by my assertions, however, that he is a poor choice of an icon for those who stand against the oppressed, even for a group that considers violence as a viable means of opposing oppression, as RATM has. Frankly, if I espoused violence as a means of opposing oppression, I would have picked somebody like Malcolm X or John Brown as my icon.
on Sep 06, 2004
Something On-Topic:
O'Reilly is as right as he is left, both extreme sides dislike him when he points out their mistakes, and both extreme sides like him when the point of the other sides mistakes, as for covering every issue, he covers what he thinks is important from his day to day life, and simply does not have the time to fit as much information as people demand of him in a one hour time slot, you want all the info, look at a website by Matt Drudge, etc. the online News guys who seem like to spend all their free time dealing with every single piece of news in existence.

Off-Topic:
True, Malcolm X, and actually John Brown (Abolitionist from right before the Civil War is the right man, right?) would have been even better, seeing as he didn't voice the rights of one race over another. That's an idea, we could make John Brown T-Shirts and put the ole' Resist Oppression underneath his picture, or what other phrase would be good?
on Sep 06, 2004
RATM....gotcha....so if you educate the kids whose parents you killed for political dissent, it makes you a humanitarian?


Okay, I haven't been to Cuba, but I have taken the time to hear from those who live there and have been there. The people there are well educated on issues around the world. I was suprised how they supported the Revolution. They didn't just say it was merely for freedom and the struggle against oppression, they give detailed examples. Pretty much, they don't want to see a Wal-Mart in their country and they have decided that Capitalism is not right form them. As for all these executions that have gone down lately, a lot of them are circumstancial because the intelligence here can't even name the people they supposedly killed. Also, they don't just put people to death, most of them spend10 or more years in death row. And when someone tells you he killed lots of people, that's because they were fighting a revolution which did not end when they paraded Havana.

If you're going to put Castro under that scope, what about the casualties of the American Government? When the colonizers started moving westward, about 50 Million or so Indians died, as documented by James Loewen. Many were dissidents forced to leave against their will and even killed. What about those dissidents, even the ones that remain today? Do they get the same coverage on the news as Castro's dissidents?

For that matter, have you interviewed the thousands of dissidents currently in exile in the US as to their feelings of Castro's treatment of his opponents?


No, I haven't talked to thousands, but a few. Many of the people who left Cuba in the 60's, were rich. They were not killed, they were allowed to leave. Since many were in the upper class, that's why most Cubans in Miami are Republican.

Have you ever heard from people that live in Cuba that like the government and how it stands? Before you assume that I haven't read up on the subject, I have heard the argument from both sides. I've met with people that have worked with Castro on issues. I took time to listen to opponents of his, many of whom want to go into Cuba a profit the hell out of it as soon as they can. And for your info, Rage has never talked about Cuba in today's world. I did the research myself. I think you, should get the info from the other side since the Cuban people could give a better case than I can.

True, Malcolm X,


Actually, Castro/Che and Malcolm X supported each other's causes. In a speech, Malcolm X noted that "the man" should not tell you who to applaud for. Still holds true today, I think.
on Sep 06, 2004
If you're going to put Castro under that scope, what about the casualties of the American Government? When the colonizers started moving westward, about 50 Million or so Indians died, as documented by James Loewen. Many were dissidents forced to leave against their will and even killed. What about those dissidents, even the ones that remain today? Do they get the same coverage on the news as Castro's dissidents?


I have never held up the US Government as standing against oppression now, have I? If you read my post, I don't hold the same hateful attitudes towards Cuba as do many Americans; my statement was that Che Guevara was an inappropriate icon for a group that claims to stand against oppression, an argument you have consistently failed to refute (thank goodness I happen to enjoy the taste of red herring!).

As ShoZan pointed out, however, my choice for Malcolm X was equally inappropriate (it was an off the cuff response), even though he did renounce his racism shortly before he was assassinated, however, I still contend that someone like John Brown is a far more appropriate icon if you're going to pick an icon who is prone to violence. Che and Castro became oppressors in the government they created. Trading one form of dictatorship for another isn't freedom.

No, I haven't talked to thousands, but a few. Many of the people who left Cuba in the 60's, were rich. They were not killed, they were allowed to leave. Since many were in the upper class, that's why most Cubans in Miami are Republican.


So your assertion is that the thousands of Cuban dissidents who are steadfastly against the Castro regime and have lobbied to keep sanctions in place are lying? That's a pretty bold assertion for someone who's never been there. I've never been there either, and I am personally in favor of lifting sanctions, however, let's get back to my original point and get rid of the damned red herrings: Che Guevara is an inappropriate icon for a group that claims to be ideologically aligned against oppression. Arguments that say "but the US did THIS", do not prove your point, they only make you sound whiny and ill informed. Arguments that speak of the educational and agrarian reforms of Cuba do not prove your point, they only make you sound whiny and ill informed. Stick to the subject, disprove my thesis or concede my point.

on Sep 06, 2004
Many of the people who left Cuba in the 60's, were rich. They were not killed, they were allowed to leave. Since many were in the upper class, that's why most Cubans in Miami are Republican.


So all those Cuban boat refugees in the 70's and 80's were rich too?

I don't remember seeing bundles of money falling out of their pockets. Most Cubans are not Republicans because they are rich, it's because the Republicans are the only of the two major parties willing to stand up to dictators.
on Sep 06, 2004
Lee1776:

Oh, so the Republicans are the only ones to stand up to dictators? Are you really serious? The U.S. stands up to dictators when and if it suits us. Both parties are guilty of this. Consider South America and Africa for example. Both have had their share and when it was considered "in our best interest" we opposed. Europe is the same story.

Of course, we really have stood up for the people in their struggle to be free in Saudi Arabia, right? Oh, yes, I see, the oil is more important than human rights. Sorry, we must have a Democrat in the White House.....or the Congress, right?
on Sep 06, 2004

Actually, Castro/Che and Malcolm X supported each other's causes. In a speech, Malcolm X noted that "the man" should not tell you who to applaud for. Still holds true today, I think.


Ironic that Castro is "the man" in Cuba.

on Sep 06, 2004
Consider South America and Africa for example.


What examples? The only thing I remember about Democrats helping in South America is John Kerry's "X-mas in Cambodia seared into my memory" speech trying to stop us from helping. In South Africa we realy didn't do much there except go along with the UN. If your talking Samolia then Bush Sr. started by giving humanitarian aid and begining to set up a police force. But Clinton had to speed up the plan by atleast six months and try to hunt down a thug. When he was finished what did we have? Nothing.

If you didn't notice Clinton spent eight years giving missile tech to the Chinese and trying to make that communist dictatorship a strategic Allie. Oooh, lets give North Korea food to feed their people so their Government can make a nuclear bomb instead of growing food for their own people. Let us help Afghanistan kick the USSR out (Ragan/Bush), but leave them to become a terrorist camp (Clinton). Lets ignore Saddam's launching missiles against UN sanctions at our service men and women for eight years. Let us now relieve sanctions on a country like Cuba who for many years sent revolutionary soldiers into South America and Africa causing all those South American and Africa problems you claim the Democrats fixed.

Please. The one person that Clinton did remove from power was Malosavich. I'm not saying what he was doing was good (in fact I supported the idea of removing him), but he was an officially Democratically elected President. So lets count how many Dictatorships in the last 12 years have fallen to Reps: 2 and how many to the Dems: 0 (but 1 Democracy).

I personally would rather be a citizen in Kuwait or Saudi Arabia then be one in North Korea or Cuba.

Of course, we really have stood up for the people in their struggle to be free in Saudi Arabia, right? Oh, yes, I see, the oil is more important than human rights.


Lets count how meany people died in China and North Korea in the last few years due to Human rights: est: 4 million.
How many in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait: 8

http://www.hrw.org/

OK, lets be buddy, buddy to the communist countries and open our markets to slave labor goods. (Then wonder why we are loosing jobs and manufacturing base to them). "We all know that communism does not work". WRONG!!!! Communism will work as long as we let it, something some people have forgotten.

Sorry for getting off subject here.

But thats my two cents.
on Sep 06, 2004
"We all know that communism does not work".


In an economic sense, communism is the worst idea for a country's economy, why is Hong Kong not entirely communist, why does China seek to regain Taiwan, because a Communist economic system is failing them, the country is going bankrupt so some of their measures to stall or stop this is to take over parts of China, or parts that are not of China, like Taiwan, over so that the Dictators can have that Capitalistic Pig money rolling in so they can keep enforceing their views. In the economic sense communism does not work, heck here's a little tidbit of knowledge about Karl Marx, man who was the founder of Marxism which gave birth to Communism, Karl Marx was not a Marxist, he thought the entire idea of Marxism was flawed, now if the founder of Marxism and Communism said he didn't like it, than why would somebody use it... Only reason I can see from history and a logical standpoint is that they did it for power.

As for rolling over for China, we know they supported two wars against the United States, even in one of them we fought their own troops, those two wars being the Korean and Vietnam Wars, what guarantee do we have that China is not backing the Islamic Terrorist, now don't take me wrong, I love Hong Kong Films, and don't hate the Chinese people, but the Chinese Communist Government, I am just plain suspicious about. Also I don't people of the Islamic religion, and I understand the analogy of the bad apples, and I have seen Islamic People come out and denounce the terrorists.
on Sep 07, 2004
Che Guevara was an inappropriate icon


Cuba's government after Bautista was kicked out was a hell of a lot better than what they had back then and I've given you examples of that. People around the world admire him for those he fought for in America and Africa.

Arguments that speak of the educational and agrarian reforms of Cuba


They have one of the best health care system and educational systems in the world. My point is that they were great things for Cuba and show that Cuba is not oppressive.

You have not stated much back up for your "thesis". It's your job to provide back up, not mine to disprove it. If you expect anything from me, I expect you to go fly a kite. There is no set agenda of what we can and can't talk about in this forum. If you don't think I'm addressing your "thesis" enough, that's your bad. We can't go off topic? This is a post on how Fox News is conservative right?

So your assertion is that the thousands of Cuban dissidents who are steadfastly against the Castro regime and have lobbied to keep sanctions in place are lying?


I never said they were lying. I think many of them have interests into going to Cuba and bringing in big business which many of the citizens who live there don't want.
on Sep 07, 2004
Lee1776:

Ok, let's consider Saudi Arabia. This is a country that is run by a dictatorship with very tight control on the media and money from the royal family (Saud) is funneled into everything BUT social programs. Education is horrible and the police are nothing more than the bad guys with badges. The society is heavily controlled in terms of media and religion and as far as "living there" the story of arrests of foreigners, torture and lack of rights is well established. http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/saudi/justice.htmlLink

Follow this link to the Canadian story of Bill Sampson who was tortured for weeks on end before being "released" without trial.

Names like Suharto, Pinochet, Duvalier and dozens of others were supported by U.S. interests. In the 1980's under, oh yes, Reagan, our best friend in the Middle East besides the Sauds was a guy named Hussein. You might have heard of him too.

The truth is that U.S. foreign policy is not a place of pride when it comes to consistency in supporting democracy. In fact, it is an expedient mixture of policies designed to advance U.S. economic and military interests.

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