OR: The Difference Between Editting and Reporting the News...
Published on August 31, 2004 By CrispE In Politics
I attended a recent showing of "Outfoxed" which was billed by those that I had heard speak of it as a left wing attempt at bashing Rupert Murdoch and Foxnews for right wing bias in editting the news to fit the propoganda mechanism that is the current right wing administration. There were descriptions that included "poor quality filming and camera work" as well as "editting issues" that made the film in part unwatchable. However, the film raises several issues that should be considered regardless of your political persuasion because the issue of news reporting is central in a republic to the decision making process of the people.

Thomas Jefferson (who as President received criticsm quite often, sometimes very undeserved) said that the country was better off with a "free press and not a free government" than vice-versa. What Jefferson meant by a free press was that the media that reports the news should take a critical eye to what government did to ensure that the people were getting both sides of the argument the government would present.

Governments have their own information dissemanation methods including spokespeople to voice their own points of view as well as contacts within the "edittorial community" (the talking heads and pundits who bombard us with their opinions of what the personalities of politics are doing). The news organizations then must take pains to scrutinize the information provided as well as digging nto the issues that face us and present us with all sides.

The history of propoganda in the world is full of examples of when the press does not take on the aspect of presenting the public with a well rounded look at issues. Consider PRAVDA in the old Soviet Union. The purpose of PRAVDA was to tell the people that the Soviet Union was the best place in the world, everything was getting better and better and say problems were temporary and that sooner rather than later everyone would be living the good life. All people needed to do was what the government thought was best for them, not question, and accept that their sacrifice was worthwhile.

Is this the argument Outfoxed makes? It certainly takes Fox, fox reporters and producers and personalities (Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity and Brit Hume) to task for multiple occurences of bias in mixing opinion with news until the line between the two are so blurred that the viewer would be hard pressed to tell where one starts and the other ends. But further, it illustrates the connection between making money by all news organizations and content of broadcasts. This includes the major networks as well as CNN.

Many of you might think (as I did at one time) that CNN was the balance to Fox but this is now in question in my own mind because the methods of "spinning" that Fox is often accused of are widespread on CNN in an attempt to keep advertising dollars that might leave with lower ratings. So, does that mean that the advertisers are really in control of the news media and the ultimate determination of what we see and how we see it?

To answer this you have to ask yourself what the advertisers want you to see. Do they want you to question the government? Is uncertainty in the future to their advantage? Do you buy more stuff when you feel good or unsure?

Personally I think that the smoke and mirrors in the stock market may be the best indication of this. Consider the unemployment rate and the increases we have seen in inflation and unrest and the world and there does seem to be a disconnect between the reality and how the news is portrayed in the media. Questioning by all news sources is muted and we are constantly reminded that the new car, house, and job are just around the corner.

Remind you of anything?


Comments (Page 3)
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on Sep 01, 2004
Parroting Mikey. And weak.


Not really, lots of people on the left have been saying this before Moore did, Moore just has a forum in the mainstream media to be heard in.

But he's liberal on quite a number of issues.


How many segments has he done on his "liberal" views? He says he's against the death penalty, how many segments on his shows has he done on that? He's says he's pro-environment, how many segments has he done on that? I'm not going on what he says he is, I'm going on what he does on his show and his books.
on Sep 01, 2004

You seem to be stating that a variety of biases in the media makes the situation ok. I think that is how we get ourselves ever deeper into problems. The longer we allow news and opinion to be blurred the more likely news organizations will be biased towards the status quo and the harder it will be for the people to make informed choices.


Isn't this why those that report on the biases of the media shouldn't be biased? How is it any better to read a biased report against a biased media outlet?


So if NPR is liberal, as you suggest, and FAIR is a left-wing group, then why would FAIR bother to investigate NPR?


FAIR does calls itself "progressive", which seems to be one of those other words that mean liberal. Besides, if FOX News and its pundits sometimes piss off people on the right, doesn't that mean it isn't conservative?


Also, as Draginol said, there are books that expose the liberal slant that the media has. Which biased group of media watchdogs am I supposed to believe?

on Sep 01, 2004
The issue of a media outlet being liberal or conservative has little to do with the correspondents or journalists.

NPR is the best example. They have more conservative commentators than liberal ones, but they are by no means conservative. Because of their liberal producers who decide content their list of stories are often stories that liberals are more likely to care about (evironmental issues, civil liberties, and even independent Hollywood films). Stories on Iraq, for example, often focus on the problems plaguing the country as it attempts to stabilize itself and bring economic and civil order to the existing chaos. Sure they have conservatives comment on those stories, ensuring that they are not one-sided...

but how come they rarely run stories on the success stories of northern Iraq, or profiling the massive improvement in infastructure and education? It's because it's barely on the producers' radars. They're looking at the world through liberal glasses. It seems as though most producers believe that if you have a conservative and a liberal voice on the show discussing the topic that you've created an unbiased piece. And maybe they have, but when you look at all the topics, you will see that the conservatives are typically on the defensive in most of the stories.

I listen to NPR daily. I love NPR because I believe that they are better than most news outlets at giving a wide spectrum of the news that's being made out there....but they fall short just like every other media outlet does. They have biases, and they cannot be seen simply by listening to the words that are spoken since everyone tries to give equal time to both sides of an issue.

The real way to see biases is to ask the questions, "What questions are they NOT asking?" "What similar issues are NOT being reported about?"

Sure everyone is making a big deal out of these weird GOP-slanted swift boat 507s...and in doing so they have given the vets probably more credit than they deserve. But how come in the nine months since moveon.org did their Make a Commerical for the Super Bowl thing, the media never said a word about all Dem-slanted 507s? There's your media bias...it's not in what's on the air, but what isn't.
on Sep 01, 2004
Shawn Hannity is a far right conservative. Alan Colmes, the co-host is a liberal. They don't claim to be unbiased.

Ahem. I was attracted to that show because I thought there would be some pretty lively debate and some real head to head action between the two hosts. Umm...NOT SO MUCH. What is so pathetic is its transparency. Hannity runs wild through the show. In contrast, meek little milquetost Colmes seems to be there only to serve as some straw-man opposition. What a joke!

on Sep 01, 2004
enkydu:

Isn't the issue with the 527's the content in terms of statements made that are based on something solid. For example, I think the Swift Boats Ad questioning what KErry did after he returned from Viet Nam is legitimate in asking the question. But the ones about his service and medals are not. They are simply attack ads done on behalf of Bush. It has already been established by Kerry's own crew that he served honorably and with valor.

Shouldn't there be someone monitoring such ads who would have the ability to say "no"?
on Sep 01, 2004
Stories on Iraq, for example, often focus on the problems plaguing the country as it attempts to stabilize itself and bring economic and civil order to the existing chaos.


Because that's what news is... are you telling me that there is a single news outlet anywhere that doesn't concentrate on the negative. You know as well as I do that murder, rape, horror, and gross inhumanity gets a lot better ratings that pleasant news that everything is great. Even if things were nearly perfect, probably the only things you'd hear about on the news is the few things that are going wrong.

When they say if it bleeds it leads... well, they are damn right it does!
on Sep 01, 2004

So...no comment on "Fair and Balanced"? If they aren't biased or simply filling time between the important commercials, you shouldn't have any trouble responding.

You seem to be stating that a variety of biases in the media makes the situation ok. I think that is how we get ourselves ever deeper into problems. The longer we allow news and opinion to be blurred the more likely news organizations will be biased towards the status quo and the harder it will be for the people to make informed choices.

Any media outlet is going to have its own biases. I find FoxNews to be pretty "fair and balanced". It provides both sides of the issues.  People who say it's GOP TV almost always seem to rely on third party analysis.

Ahem. I was attracted to that show because I thought there would be some pretty lively debate and some real head to head action between the two hosts. Umm...NOT SO MUCH. What is so pathetic is its transparency. Hannity runs wild through the show. In contrast, meek little milquetost Colmes seems to be there only to serve as some straw-man opposition. What a joke!

But which one do you find more compelling? I find Colmes to be much more convincing than Hannity.  Hanny is more flamboyant but the facts remain - you've got a liberal and a conservative on there. They take different approaches.

NPR is the best example. They have more conservative commentators than liberal ones

No, it does not. Please list these "conservative" commentators.  Diane Rheim? No, very liberal. Terry Gross? Liberal.  The Connection? Left.  Robert Siegel? Left. Who are these conservative commentators. Please educate me.

Frankly, I"m really taken aback that anyone at this point would actually argue that NPR was conservative. I mean, that's almost akin to saying Michael Moore is conservative.  NPR/PBS are quite well known for tilting a bit left.   Don't take this the wrong way but I'm not really interested in arguing with someone who thinks NPR is conservative. Just like I'm not interested in debating with someone who thinks the earth is flat. If you think NPR is conservative then I say good for you, but I'm not going to put a lot of energy trying to dissuade you.

on Sep 01, 2004
Please list these "conservative" commentators


For the last time: "FAIR’s study recorded every on-air source quoted in June 2003 on four National Public Radio news shows: All Things Considered, Morning Edition, Weekend Edition Saturday and Week-end Edition Sunday. Each source was classified by occupation, gender, nationality and partisan affiliation. Altogether, the study counted 2,334 quoted sources, featured in 804 stories."

Reply #33 (enkydu) stated the case nicely. While NPR is not necessarily conservative (as I wrongly asserted), the majority of its sources on those programs are. That does not necessarily make the network conservative. I was wrong to paint all of NPR with such a broad brush and meant only to discuss the news programs in the FAIR study.
Please, draginol, calm down or you're going to have a stroke!
And the world is not flat, nor is it round!
(It's obtuse)
on Sep 01, 2004
•American Injustice: 60 Days For Child Rape
-Another ad for why we need more jails and police. Does he ever do any on how people are sent 25-Life for drug use? Or how innocent people are put away?


Umm, yes, actually. O'Reilly's articles are pretty topical; right now, the election is topical.

So, are you feeling the child molestor was unfairly attacked by O'Reilly and that the 60-Day sentence was fair? I relly don't see why you're presenting this as a "conservative" topic.

•Taking Sex Ed Too Far?
-Against sex ed in school, pretty conservative position.


No, against "taking sex ed too far", as it says. I didn't watch the program, nor, as is clear from your article, did you, but, would you say, for instance, a topic on "fisting" in a sex ed class would be a fair use of public funds so as to warn children of the potential dangers? Not saying this is an actual example, but using it as an example of how one could feel that certain sex ed curricula had gone too far and NOT be a conservative.

•Abortion and Parental Rights of Notification
-Talking about the issue of parents being notified for a child's abortion., which all 3 quests agree should pass. No case against the bill is given, even by the supposed liberal.


So this is a conservative piece....HOW?!?

•Does Immigration Increase Gang Activity?
-This issue is what convinces me that the "liberal" media is a myth. Everyday on these programs there is at least one segment on how there are too many Mexicans and they are destroying the country. Their solution is to militarize the neighborhoods and furhter militarize the border. Buchanon does this crap on MSNBC and CNN is following the lead. It's crap like this that makes normal people to expect the worst when they see the "profile" person of color, because these brown bodies are causing harm to their nation, as they are told. The segment doesn't even advocate against illegal immigration, it advocates for more regulation against ALL immigration. This crap gets programmed EVERY DAY in the "liberal" media.


No, it advocates for controlling the borders and responsible immigration. As one who has worked in a job dominated by illegal immigrants, I can tell you, you ARE considered a second class citizen, and you ARE ganged up against by the minority. If you look at the welfare benefits and educational monies that are being appropriated to illegal immigrants, you can come to no other conclusion than that our immigration policy needs to be fixed. O'Reilly simply advocates ONE position.

•Alec Baldwin: My Life Is Nobody's Business
-O'Reilly attacks Hollywood lefties and even Michael Moore a lil bit.


O'Reilly attacks these Hollywood lefties because of their blatant hypocrisy. That they preach a populist message while raking in multimillion dollar contracts per flick shows that their message is only preached to sell their movies, not because it is a view they actually hold. Again, this is not a conservative position, per se.

•Group Cries Foul on Border Control Measure
-What a shock. Another topic about the border. He spins this issue more than any other.


If you had actually WATCHED this piece, you might actually be able to give an informative reply.

•Vietnam Vet Says Kerry Saved His Life
-He defends the SBV by saying they can both be right. How can they both be right if they disagree?


Umm, even McCain conceded that different people's viewpoints on the same event can have completely different perspectives.

•Red Cross Cleans Up in Charley's Aftermath
-I don't know if this is conservative or not, but it does play to the fear angle. In this case it's mother nature. One dude actually says "This is a very, very scary thing." THE APOCALYPSE IS COMING!!! :::break for commercial::: Lease a Jaguar for Zero Down and no payments till March!!! Hurray on down!!!


OK, now, this one alone should get you a "trolling" rating. You've proved nothing except your agenda to discredit O'Reilly. If you've read and watched O'Reilly consistently, you'd know he has taken both liberal and conservative issues on varying positions. Leave it to people like you to try to pull out his conservative topics (I say "try" because, beyond the immigration issue, you've failed completely to show O'Reilly as a conservative), rather than taking an honest, unbiased look at what he has to say.

on Sep 01, 2004
O' Reilly is hated by both sides, the conservatives and the liberals, because he so far has not come out wholeheartedly supporting one side or the other, and that pisses off both sides.
Conservatives say he is to liberal on key important conservative issues.
Liberals say he is to conservative on key important liberal issues.

Not to mention when ever he gives his own OPINION, he says they do not reflect FOX, or FOX afflitate etc. because they are his own OPINIONS. Hate him or love him, he is O'Reilly.

If you want to complain he is conservative, than why is he giving sound politcal advice to Kerry that would benefit Kerry's campaign?

Some people forget that their is a middle to liberalism and conservatism, and unless it gets defined clearer and spoken about more, than people will just keep bombarding those who don't follow one or the other. Why should there ever be two choices? Why? Plus in news you multiple national news coverage stations, MSNBC, CNN, Fox News, International News, etc. and if you want unbiased political views when it comes to politics watching the ever-boring CSPAN when Congress is in session.

Please remember everybody everywhere has their own opinion when it comes to everything and anything, and to ask them just to be neutral on everything, is asking them to have no emotion, no feelings, no nothing whatsoever, news reporters are people not machines, and until the day machines replace news reporters than expect that person to have feelings and thoughts on the subjects being reported.
on Sep 01, 2004
But which one do you find more compelling? I find Colmes to be much more convincing than Hannity. Hanny is more flamboyant but the facts remain - you've got a liberal and a conservative on there. They take different approaches.

I would like to believe that, but when Colmes just keeps getting steamrolled, I wonder if it is the intent of the producers to put such imbalanced personalities (not ideologies) together. Franken once asked Colmes at a white house dinner why he didn't have more backbone (or something to that effect) and a producer of the show (now I'm going to have to go back to the source) cut in, saying, "That's not our format."

Good call on the NPR thing, btw. Not that it's all that bad, but it is what it is.
on Sep 01, 2004
And the world is not flat, nor is it round!
(It's obtuse)


I'm an idiot--I meant oblate. I'll shut up now.
on Sep 01, 2004

Well as a fan of NPR (I listen to it a lot each days and have been on it as a guest) I tend to be a bit short of patience when people, who don't listen to it, start regurgitating from third party analysis. Particularly from places that have political agendas like "FAIR".

The O'Reilly stuff is unfairly accused of being "conservative".  O'Reilly isn't against Sex Ed.  He is, however, against schools hiring contractors to come in and simulate sex in front of 10 year olds which is what the particular segment was about (I saw it).

I've written this elsewhere but it bears saying it again: There is a real tendancy for some reason for those who are left of center to really excessively on third party analysis rather than looking at the actual data themselves and drawing their own conclusions. (Conservatives have the opposite problem, they're paranoid about the "liberal media bias" so much that they read the data and often come to very kooky conclusions).  But that's why the left is much more  vulnerable into getting sucked into propaganda like Fahrenheit 9/11.

on Sep 01, 2004

Well said Shozan:

If you're conservative, O'Reilly seems pretty liberal.  If you're liberal, he seems pretty conservative.  That's because ideaologues tend to want people to stick to a particular plate. 

O'Reilly who is against the death penalty, pro gay civil unions, socially moderate to liberal on many issues, pro gun control, etc. cannot reasonably be called a "right winger" as many left wing outlets try to dismiss him.  Similarly, his religious views, traditional family values, fiscal conservatism make it equally absurd to call him a "liberal shill" as some conservative zealots describe him.

on Sep 02, 2004
So, are you feeling the child molestor was unfairly attacked by O'Reilly and that the 60-Day sentence was fair? I relly don't see why you're presenting this as a "conservative" topic.


I don't know the specifics of what the trial is about, but that man should get what he deserves. My point is that when there is some case when a quilty person gets off, O'Reilly is one of the first people there to make a story about it. When the opposite happens, like an innocent man going to jail, he's nowhere to be found. He does this everyday, and it makes it seem like there is an epidemic of guilty rapists and murderers on the street, which is a very conservative position. For example, with the Mumia Abdul Jamal case. He just says he's a guilty cop killer with a mountain of evidence against him, but he never mentions the witness who admitted that she was pressured into testifying that Mumia was guilty or that the judge was very hostile.

No, against "taking sex ed too far", as it says.


Okay, restating it the way you said is a fairly conservative position as well. Aren't conservatives watchdogs against sex ed in school?

So this is a conservative piece....HOW?!?
About piece on abortion notification for parents.

Again here, the show is attacking planned parenting which appeals conservatives. They are arguing a bill that would force minors to tell their parents about an abortion, which would make an abortion less likely. Less abortion = Conservative.

No, it advocates for controlling the borders and responsible immigration. As one who has worked in a job dominated by illegal immigrants, I can tell you, you ARE considered a second class citizen, and you ARE ganged up against by the minority. If you look at the welfare benefits and educational monies that are being appropriated to illegal immigrants, you can come to no other conclusion than that our immigration policy needs to be fixed. O'Reilly simply advocates ONE position.


Sounds pretty conservative to me.

If you had actually WATCHED this piece, you might actually be able to give an informative reply.


You assumption is wrong. I watched a few off these and the ones I didn't watch I read the transcript. My point was the same as the one on the border issue, which is why I didn't go into detail.

Umm, even McCain conceded that different people's viewpoints on the same event can have completely different perspectives.


Good point, but the man is telling you his life was saved by Kerry. How can he be wrong?

OK, now, this one alone should get you a "trolling" rating.


Ok, I was going off topic and I wasn't trying to discredit O'Reily. I was merely pointing out how the media uses fear of naute to sell stuff, I wasn't singling out O'Reilly.

Leave it to people like you to try to pull out his conservative topics


Nope, these topics come out in order on his site as the last topics to come out on his show and were I got the videos and transcripts from. I got it from here.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,96207,00.html

O'Reilly who is against the death penalty, pro gay civil unions, socially moderate to liberal on many issues, pro gun control, etc.


Good point Drag, but my problem is that he does not talk about these issues on his show. In his book he even goes on about how the corporate media influences our lives and our public opinion, very liberal view. In the same book, he blasts away at Jesse Jackson for using race to for his power base. Which issue has he pushed on his show? He's blasted Jackson a few times on his show, has he ever done one on the influences of the corporate media? Does he ever push against the death penalty? I only watch the show once a week, but I keep up with his site and I have never seen him do either. I there is a difference between what you say and what you do.
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