There Ought to Be a Law...

OR: Are Sports More Important Than Faith?

Published on August 17, 2004 By CrispE In Politics

(This article reflects my sense of anxiety over what is a religious issue in a sense. However, I decided to put on the Politics Forum because it is about using laws to promote values in society.)

Recently a long time friend invited me to a meeting of the education committee at my church. I no longer have children (well, she's 25, so, sort of, but not really) and spend most of my time in trying to encourage young families whom are seeking God to come and see what our church is all about. But I agreed because I believe in education (was a teacher once upon a time) and was interested in how the Sunday School was doing.

It was quite surprising to me that the Sunday School Committee was actually suggesting that perhaps Sunday School was going to be cancelled in the fall because it wasn't felt that there was enough interest from the kids to make it worthwhile to have. So, in an effort to see if the kids and parents would be too disappointed by this (churches hate to lose anyone through "disappointment") they held a "fun night" to see how the kids felt about this.

Perhaps in the interest of fairness I should say that I don't believe kids should have a say in whether they go to Sunday School. That is, to me, a parental responsibility. When my daughter became 2 years old she began Christian education and her mother and I attended every week also. It's part of what some people call "family values" as opposed to the parent who says "this looks Christian, kid, you go while Mom and Dad sit and read the paper Sunday mornings." That teaches values also, just not very good ones.

What I found out quickly was that the kids were so involved in sports programs on Sunday morning that they had no time for Sunday School. There were 16 kids at the meeting ranging from 8 to 15 years in age. 10 of them had at least a 6 week commitment to either junior football (Pop Warner) or cheerleading for junior football or were involved in youth basketball or volleyball programs during the winter. 2 of the others were involved in bowling leagues that ran from October to March that met Sunday mornings.

I was outraged by this. Obviously there is no sense among parents that faith requires participation in Christian education and it's much easier to get Jane and Johnny to go to sports programs than church. The kids were ambivalent about their faith with a very poor understanding of the role of worship, Bible study, or even fellowship in their lives.

Now I understand proposing to the local government that sports programs not be allowed to operate on Sunday morning (except the Summer) is going to meet with both skepticism and derision. Those on the liberal side will say that we don't need a law to accomplish the purpose of getting kids into christian education programs. It should be up to the parents a liberal will say and suggest an education program for the adults to show them the benefits and joy of Bible study. Conservatives will say this is meddling intrusively into families when there are much worse problems that need dealing with.

But, before you scoff so quickly, consider the use of law in society. It is not simply a device for stating what is wrong. True, saying that stealing, murder, blackmail is not actually promoting good behavior. However, what about laws which promote having children? We certainly do that by the tax breaks we give. It is, at least in part, promoting the social value of a family by agreeing as a government to provide some support.

The thing is, while I might have been a flack-jacketed parent whipping my child daily, forcing her to attend Sunday School, most parents today aren't. They might wish Jane or Johnny wanted to go to church but sports are, believe it or not, more fun. Shameful but true. But we don't give up teaching science or math to kids because it isn't fun. We recognize the value of education and promote the concept by forcing kids to attend schools.

I'm not suggesting we do that with Christian Education. I'm suggesting we level the playing field between a society that says it has values (you do have values, don't you?) and the ability of someone to run youth sports on Sunday mornings.

Do you really think that is asking for too much?

Comments (Page 1)

Deference

on Aug 17, 2004

Interesting idea. I see, daily, how the secular side of American culture has been able to push religion to the sidelines and attempt to hedge it's influence. It is a sorry state of affairs, but people are free to do as they wish. A Sunday statute like one prohibiting the sale of alcohol could be introduced on the local, then perhaps the county level. It will be up to the people to decide how successful that is. Perhaps if there is enough support and enough success with this it will spread to other towns and counties.

Part of the reason religion is so hindered in attracting new blood is because of the limitations people feel under the yoke of spirituality. Many people feel they are missing out on the "good stuff" offered by the secular world ( promiscuity, drugs, the time and commitment of attending church ) I know many football Dads who say goodbye to the wife and kids Sunday mornings to stay at home and watch football. We've suffered a lack of leadership from men, particularly, in the last few decades and the rest of the family has followed. There are many other factors, as you know, but it is important for us to keep the faith and push for what we can in the face of a Godless society.

chiprj

on Aug 17, 2004

I'm gonna have to go out on a limb here and disagree with you that there should be a law...

You yourself say -

Perhaps in the interest of fairness I should say that I don't believe kids should have a say in whether they go to Sunday School. That is, to me, a parental responsibility.

I completely agree with you on this. But, this does not call for a law. It calls for parents to make a decision and stick with it. This is not a matter, I feel, for the government to decide or to make easier to decide. If the parent feels the Sunday School should take priority, then they should choose it. If the church/parish feels this is important, they should make a stronger effort to bring the flock closer (the fun night they had was a good feeling out event - now they need to adjust tactics as they see fit). This may include adjusting when the Sunday School takes place. It's sad that the families don't try to make the coaches change the schedule, but that's really their responsibility, not that of the government, in my opinion.

By denying outside activities, you would not necessarily make Sunday School more popular or increase attendance. You may actually cause a rift with the families because of this. To some people, the team activites are very important. And team activities are not devoid of values, either. They teach, among other things, teamwork, problem solving, and cooperation. Those are values (just not-necessarily spiritually geared values).

You make very good points and I agree with most everything you say here, with the exception of actually needing a law to curb the Sunday morning activities. There are other ways to solve the problem than to have a public figure say - 'You can't do this." There is a big difference between liquor laws and Sunday morning sporting events. It is truly a sad statement on our society that spirituality takes a back seat to sports, but that is a society issue not a govenmental issue.

In addition to the arguments against this that you bring up yourself, you also run the risk of getting people riled up over the separation of church and state. Legislating in favor of an organized religion will cause people to buck right away. Even if the reasons are well placed and well thought out.

The only other part of the article that I take exception to is this -

I'm suggesting we level the playing field between a society that says it has values (you do have values, don't you?) and the ability of someone to run youth sports on Sunday mornings.

This may not be your intention, but it seems that you are insinuating that the reader may not have values if they don't agree with you here, or that their values are no good if they don't agree.

Good post, though! You score an Insightful from me.

thatoneguyinslc

on Aug 17, 2004

A Law? It's up to the PARENTS to make sure the kids get any religous upbringing. Some choose to see they do, Some do not. The same with sports. The problem nowadays is some parents refuse to actually PARENT their kids, and cave into them and let them choose what they do. Kids don't have the tools to know what they should and shouldn't do when it comes to things like this.

I used to bitch and moan about the stuff my mom made me do when i was a kid. As an adult, i understand why.

Lord Shitzu

on Aug 17, 2004

As someone who doesn't particularly like neither sports nor religion, I think I can atbitrate between the two pretty fairly >8).

That said, a law like that probably wouldn't fly if only because not everyone is Christian. If I wanted my kids to be able to play sports, as an atheist I would be annoyed if they were suddenly barred from doing so on Sunday because you want to encourage Sunday School, when you could encourage or enforce it yourself, as has been said, without forcing the restriction on other faiths/lack thereof.

Furthermore, I wonder why nobody thought to simply change times around? Does religion have to based on strict traditionalism so much that you have to have a Sunday School on Sunday morning? Why not make it a Saturday School? Or a Sunday Night School? Or whatever you wish.

Or why not educate your kids in the faith you espouse yourself, at times that you decide, rather than depend on your church to do it each Sunday morning?

Just my opinion.

CrispE

on Aug 17, 2004

chiprj:
The main reason I pose the question is for discussion. "You do have values, don't you?" is not an insinuation that the reader does not have values but rather because they do have values will consider Sunday School important even if they themselves are not of the faith. The importance of making a law in regards to this is that it gives parents a bit of an edge. They can encourage their children with it rather than being placed in a "if you loved me you'd take me so I can play" situation.

As for separation of church and state, that is not the issue here. If the town (as an example) says "no youth football before 12 noon on Sunday" that doesn't say force them to go to church or tell them what church to go to. It simply states that the town (as a government) has a right to set aside time so that families might spend time together. Now, I might "prefer" them in church, but that is not stated in the regulation.

Thanks for your kind words.

CrispE

on Aug 17, 2004

Lord Shitzu:

There are alternatives to Sunday School and much of what a parent does is something that should be left to them. However, you see how the path society is walking down eventually comes to the point where Christian education can not be done by churches on Sunday morning (most churches take all kind of grief if they try to have educational programs outside of Sunday morning).

We already are in a situation in the schools where values education is totally deemphasized and religion is essentially prevented from influencing the educational process. Where do values get taught? Are you really suggesting that if a parent chooses not to teach values that we will sacrifice the children on the altar of indifference?

CrispE

on Aug 17, 2004

thatoneguyinslc:

Yes, I agree it is up to the parents. But, let me ask you. We give tax breaks for having children, right? Don't you think "encouraging" parents with a law like this would help them to spend time with their children. No, not every parent will. But some will and that is much more than what I saw amongst the ones I saw at the meeting with the kids.

As for you, you seem to have turned out ok. I guess the flack-jacket worked ok for your parents... hehehe. J/K

Aaron Shepard

on Aug 17, 2004

what a bunch of antisemitic pigs. i am jewish, and our services are on saturday. so how about no football on saturday? the government of towns has ABSOLUTELY no right regulating when things can or cannot be done. if its a city funded thing, thats different, and it is up to them. but they cannot discriminate via religion.

basically this old crispe fool is saying we should all head the values of christianity, and spend our sundays as christians would. i am glad you feel that way, but how dare you try to say everyone else should live that way? your post is so filled with unbelieveable lunacies that its hard to comprehend. you are a sad excuse for a human being, and hopefully you find some religious anti-semitic friends to spend your last dying days with.

Lord Shitzu

on Aug 17, 2004

We already are in a situation in the schools where values education is totally deemphasized and religion is essentially prevented from influencing the educational process. Where do values get taught? Are you really suggesting that if a parent chooses not to teach values that we will sacrifice the children on the altar of indifference?

At first I was confused about what you meant by the last statement, but I see your point now, still, consider that if a parent chooses not to teach values to his or her child, and the child happens not to be Christian, or the parent does not encourage the child to pursue his or her religion, then you're back to square one.

You say that parents should teach their kids values, but if they fail to, at least Sunday school can help, fair enough, but what if the child has no inclination to go to Sunday school. You can't force him or her to, as you yourself stated, because that would be going too far to forcing beliefs on his or her, but how will banning sports on Sunday morning force children to be taught moral values?

Surely it won't really solve anything. I hope you can see what I am trying to say, because I have made it a little too confusing for its own good.

I honestly believe that it is a parent's responsibility to teach their child morality, and that in fact they do that merely by being there and leading by example. I've never been much of a Church-going person, and my parents allowed me to choose whatever religion or lack thereof that I wanted, they never had to go out of their way to sit down and tell me right from wrong, it's just something I picked up from their own decency. And I certainly consider myself a pretty good person at present, by any widespread standards.

terpfan1980

on Aug 17, 2004

Sorry, but my own thoughts are that you have no business to tell any one what they do with their Sundays.

If I wish to spend part of my weekend going to Church and/or taking my kids to Sunday School or something similar, that's fine. But, on the other hand, if I choose to worship in my own way, without the formality of an organized religion or church, and if I choose to allow my children to learn about religion in their own way, then that is my right (and theirs).

I'm much more in favor of aboloshing any laws that restrict business and other activities on Sundays, as I find in life that I get more and more frustrated with businesses that are not open when it's convenient for me and my busy lifestyle.

If Chick-fil-a didn't make some of the best tasting food on the planet, I'd boycott them out-of-business (I've been known to singularly drive companies out of business by my boycotts

just ask Montgomery Wards, and a few other companies that I used to deal with) just for their policy of being closed on Sundays.

On the other hand, if someone told me that they wanted to pass a law that forbid a company from making a choice to allow their employees to use Sunday to worship, I'd defend their rights to do so to the death.

Aaron Shepard

on Aug 17, 2004

wow, a terp fan makes an intelligent comment. what is the world coming to

wahooowaaa go cavs

xtine

on Aug 17, 2004

On Wednesdays, the kids in my daughter's schools have the choice to attend "religion classes." The children that do so get to leave school early to do that. The ones that don't have to stay and read quietly or do homework for the remainder of the day because the teacher can't teach only half a class.

That just gets me riled up every year. My tax dollars are paying this teacher's salary to babysit my kid so that other kids can go learn about a belief that our family doesn't subscribe to. I feel like the teacher should continue to teach the class and those that toddle off to their worship should be responsible for the material they miss.

I grew up in a state who's blue laws shut everything down on Sunday. This totally did not encourage my folks to hang out with the kids. We didn't "DO" church. What did we do? We drove across the state line to go shopping. That was our family bonding time.

Religion and government just don't mix. At least, not well.

citahellion

on Aug 17, 2004

if the town (as an example) says "no youth football before 12 noon on Sunday" that doesn't say force them to go to church or tell them what church to go to. It simply states that the town (as a government) has a right to set aside time so that families might spend time together.

Perhaps, but it's still a pretty transparent effort. How would you feel if the town passed a law stating that employers are required to give their employees five 10-minute breaks a day, at specific times, during which the employees may do whatever they please? And those specific times "just happen" to line up with the times that devout muslims are supposed to be bowing to Mecca? There's nothing in the law that says "thou shalt prefer Islam", but it's still clear that the law is slanted in Islam's favor.
Although Aaron Shepard phrased his objection in just about the most offensive way possible, his underlying point is actually valid. You want to encourage Christian values with this law, he would prefer to encourage Jewish values, and Muslims would probably prefer something more like what I proposed. None of them is really appropriate as a matter of law.

Gideon MacLeish

on Aug 17, 2004

I knew I would take issue with this when I read the post...lol.

The problem is with the parents; if they refused to participate in a Sunday AM league, there would BE no Sunday AM league. I think that people who are dedicated to their faith, though, usually get their priorities straight. People who aren't dedicated to their faith will find some other reason not to be there for services either.

And it's not "anti-semitic" to not mention the Jewish perspective, for the record, any more than it's "anti-pagan" to not mention the pagan perspective. Want a Jewish perspective? Write your own damn blog...lol

Aaron Shepard

on Aug 17, 2004

i was just giving an example. i dont want government to favor me, or any other religion. it should be completely unbiased. SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE exists for a reason.

now, maybe what I said could be offensive, but he deserves no less. I am tired of these religious conservatives trying to impose their sets of morals and beliefs on the rest of the world. you want to do something, you do it. doesnt mean others have to.

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