OR: Is Arlen Specter Really Too Liberal?
Published on November 15, 2004 By CrispE In Politics
Arlen Specter, Chairman of the Senate Judicial Committee, is a Republican from Pennsylvania where he has served as a conservative representative for over 20 years. Specter is generally considered to be fiscally conservative and has fought against government expenditure for such programs as healthcare for many years. Democrats are said to see him as less moderate than many in the Senate but someone who can be reasoned with on matters of substance. But Specter has "pro-choice" stamped on his forehead in a time when as many as 4 Supreme Court justices may be chosen and the neocons see him as a block to the neoconservative agenda of overturning Roe V. Wade and sending abortions back into alleys and brothels.

Specter has supported Preseident Bush almost 100% of the time but sees his role on the Judicial Committee as a bond of honor to the country. He does not want to see abortion become a more divisive issue than it is now but sees the religious right as a threat to "strict constructionistism" because the agenda of religious leaders extends far beyond abortion.

What Specter did not anticipate is that the President he has supported and believes in would turn on him as being a traitor to Republican values by his stance on choice. Once again, the Bush administration shows itself to not be conservative in any appreciable way and indeed to be a radical group of people who used the Republican Party to gain power and then fights within the party to move the it to their radical position.

The Democratic Party is often accused of being a concensus of 20 separate interest groups and certainly the commonality (the big tent approach) of the party is that supporting each other is better than letting the opposition steal the agenda. The re-election of Mr. Bush has shown the concensus to have failed to do this. Indeed, the Bush administration believes it has a mandate to change tax laws, social security, and how justice is done in the U.S. If the Democrats are going to gain any chance to make input in these issues then it is going to need at least a sympathetic ear to listen.

If you would have suggested before now that Arlen Specter would have such an ear before now I think that few would have agreed. However, I think Senator Specter is going to find out how far away his party has moved from his values and ideals. Senator Frist, the Majority Leader in the Senate, a potential candidate in 2008 is already looking away from Specter and considering alternatives to his chairmanship of the Judiciary Committee. Many others in the Senate are lining up against Specter, running scared from the monster in the White House who will stop at nothing to shape the United States in "his image."

This signals an even more important turn in the course of post-election America. It is a continuing revolution in the Republican "Party" that wil continue to adopt more and more of the leadership of the Jerry Falwells and Pat Robertsons whom many even in conservative congregations see as extremists. But as "moderates" are pushed out of the way like Colin Powell and Arlen Specter the agenda of the neocons becomes a possibility. Deficit spending, more tax cuts, extremist justice and more burdens placed on the workers and the poor are just some of the future as the administration moves closer and closer to it's core philosophy.

Is this really what you wanted when you voted for Bush?

Comments (Page 3)
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on Nov 16, 2004
CrispE:

We're not talking about freedom of speech, here, rather political acumen. He would have had plenty of opportunity to assert his influence, were he so inclined, once the Congress was convened. Offering the comments he did, practically during his election victory press conference, was not very smart of him, having just barely been re-elected thanks in no small part to the President's efforts. I'm not saying he owes the President carte blanche, but he would have been wise to keep his counsel for another day. He should also now be quietly working directly with Frist and the other members of the committee, not trying to make his case in repeated interviews with the press.

Cheers,
Daiwa
on Nov 16, 2004
Replacing a Senate committee chairman may be "almost unheard of"...

So is the defeat of a Senate minority leader. Maybe it's just a matter of people wanting to see something besides Congressional gridlock.

Specter certainly has a right to say whatever he wishes. His party also has the right to choose the chairman they want. I concur that Specter made a tactical error in opening his mouth. He ducked out from under the very coattails that snuck him back into office. Would he really have been re-elected had Kerry won that night? Doubtful.

Why is it that we associate Freedom of Speech with the ability to say anything without reprecussions? You may say anything you wish, but you are still held responsible for what you say.

Especially in politics.
on Nov 16, 2004
"We don't need judges like the Florida Supremes that decide that they can override the will of the people as written into law by the Florida legislature..."

If the will of the people (majority) wants the legislature to pass a law that is in conflict with the Constitution, it is the Court's JOB to overturn that law! Their job is not to be a rubber stamp for the majority.... I think this is a fundamental misunderstanding of the Court's role within our democratic republican form of government. We do not have nor did the Founders establish a direct democracy where majority opinion is the only one that counts.

"a commitee chairman has a larger obligation to the party and/or to the country."

A committee chairman has a larger obligation to do his JOB as chairman of the committee but that position does not mean he has to be a rubber stamp for the Party or the President. His largest responsibility is to his constituency...not the party.
on Nov 16, 2004
"And btw, there are plenty of more "moderate" and/or liberal Republicans, including Olympia Snow, Lincoln Chaffee, and a few others. (About 5 - 7 moderate to liberal leaning Republicans at last count, maybe 3 - 10 -- depending on how you count -- true moderate types, and the rest typically tilted more to the conservative side)."

That sounds about right but Bush needs them...and if you continuously marginalize them with these attacks you will see them bolt the party or start working more across the aisle with conservative to moderate Democrats. Even Dick Lugar and other Republican Senators said that unless the Senate is willing to change ALL of it's rules, Spector should become the next chairman of the judiciary committee. I don't know why you keep painting him as "liberal" when Spector voted for almost ALL of Bush's judicial appointments, including Clarence Thomas, and one exception is Bork. This is exactly what I am talking about...if someone doesn't agree with the far right 100% of the time, you go after them like they are traitors. It is self-destructive...but if you guys want to self-implode, be my guest.
on Nov 16, 2004
Reply #35 By: Citizen T_Bone4Justice - 11/16/2004 1:00:02 AM
"We don't need judges like the Florida Supremes that decide that they can override the will of the people as written into law by the Florida legislature..."

If the will of the people (majority) wants the legislature to pass a law that is in conflict with the Constitution, it is the Court's JOB to overturn that law! Their job is not to be a rubber stamp for the majority.... I think this is a fundamental misunderstanding of the Court's role within our democratic republican form of government. We do not have nor did the Founders establish a direct democracy where majority opinion is the only one that counts.

"a commitee chairman has a larger obligation to the party and/or to the country."

A committee chairman has a larger obligation to do his JOB as chairman of the committee but that position does not mean he has to be a rubber stamp for the Party or the President. His largest responsibility is to his constituency...not the party.


Answering Kingbee somewhat at the same time here.

Even the Chief Justice of the Florida Supreme Court had grave reservations about the fact that the (Florida Supreme Court) had opted to ignore the laws of the state in their decisions allowing Gore v. Bush to continue to make a joke of the 2000 presidential election.

They got smacked down on their first decision related to recounts, but the Supreme Court of the U.S. (SCOTUS) did the folks in the Florida Supreme Court (FSC) a favor in tossing the issue back and allowing them to try to fix it. They proceeded to jump right back in and come back with a decision that was even more in contradiction with the law as passed by the legislature, and which didn't carry equal weight for each vote and voter, and that violated equal protection and was tossed on it's butt in favor of a very split decision from the SCOTUS.


Disagreed again on the responsibility to the constituency. Sorry, but Chairman/woman serve at the whim of the party in power. If Specter feels the need to represent what he's feels are the interests of his constituents over the needs of the party, that's fine, but in doing so, he'll be forfeiting the chairmanship (which he may well already have done).


It's not often that a party would pass over a person with seniority, but it can and does happen. They (the Republicans in the Senate) could also decide to just suspend their own self imposed commitee chairmanship term limits and leave Senator Hatch in the job. Were that to happen, then seniority hasn't been violated, and Specter will have to just sit and wait longer.


Circling back on the will of the people - the FSC decided that the will of the voters/people -- even if in the minority -- over rode the will of the legislature, and the laws that had been duly passed. Those laws established various rules for how elections, and recounts after elections if necessary, would be carried out. Unfortunately, the Democrats in 2000 decided that rules didn't matter - including attempts to spoil the military and overseas ballots because they didn't follow the rules that would grant an advantage to the Dems. They tried to use the courts to reshape the rules and toss the laws they disagreed with. Unfortunately it didn't work in the long haul, and election reforms passed since that time have tightened things up even more.

Though the SCOTUS got themselves involved at the request of the Bush 2000 team, they didn't desire to, and tried to avoid getting involved, but the issues involved were of such import so as to require a timely decision and they made one (several along the way actually).

If Gore had never taken back his concession speech, and the Dems in 2000 hadn't decided to scream over Florida, then the issues don't exist, and the world would have continued on, at least until issues of Gay Marriage came up, or perhaps until the issue of "Under God" in the Pledge came up.
on Nov 16, 2004
Reply #36 By: Citizen T_Bone4Justice - 11/16/2004 1:13:31 AM
"And btw, there are plenty of more "moderate" and/or liberal Republicans, including Olympia Snow, Lincoln Chaffee, and a few others. (About 5 - 7 moderate to liberal leaning Republicans at last count, maybe 3 - 10 -- depending on how you count -- true moderate types, and the rest typically tilted more to the conservative side)."

That sounds about right but Bush needs them...and if you continuously marginalize them with these attacks you will see them bolt the party or start working more across the aisle with conservative to moderate Democrats. Even Dick Lugar and other Republican Senators said that unless the Senate is willing to change ALL of it's rules, Spector should become the next chairman of the judiciary committee. I don't know why you keep painting him as "liberal" when Spector voted for almost ALL of Bush's judicial appointments, including Clarence Thomas, and one exception is Bork. This is exactly what I am talking about...if someone doesn't agree with the far right 100% of the time, you go after them like they are traitors. It is self-destructive...but if you guys want to self-implode, be my guest.


You are right that the Republicans should be mindful of their moderate and slightly more liberal members, but there are also conservative leaning Democrats that may slide over to replace any that may start sliding to the left. For example, Mary Landreau and other similar senators in "dixiecrat" areas. Some of those same people are much like Zell Miller or Breaux or other DINOs (Democrats In Name Only).

Specter is painted as a liberal because he has demonstrated himself to be such. Not because he's being labelled by conservatives.

His voting record is all over the place, sometimes liberal, sometimes conservative. It's liberal on enough issues and enough cases to show him to be a liberal, and not just a moderate.

Face it, if Specter came out tomorrow and said he was switching to being a Democrat, he'd be welcome with open arms. On the other hand, if say Orrin Hatch said the same thing, he'd be sneered at and turned away as being too conservative for the Democratic party.
on Nov 16, 2004
Terpfan:

Saying that Specter would be welcomed by the Democratic Party is a weak argument because both parties would "welcome" anyone jumping sides....liberal, moderate, or conservative so the reality is that past history has nothing to do with that.

You have a right to think Specter is a liberal (and with free speech may even say it in public with my blessing, hehehe) but that is not generally how he is viewed by his constituents or most of the Senate.

The issue for Bush is that Specter is pro-choice and Bush has decided he will choose the path of the country. Bush has already shown that he is determined to put people on the court who won't question him or his politics. He expects the Senate to rubber stamp those decisions. If Specter won't he will replace him.
on Nov 16, 2004
Judges need not follow the GOP party line. If a judge looks at an anti-abortion bill and calls it unconstitutional because it is, then so be it. They've done their job. If they look at the same bill and decide to implement a totally different set of rules because they know better than the legislature, then they are activist


Dear merciful god in heaven. I cleaned all the bullshit off this response and found this: Liberal judges bad. Conservative judges good. Liberal interpretation of the law: erroneous. Conservative interpretation of the law: infallible. The use of 'abortion' as your example gave you away.
on Nov 16, 2004
Myrrander, how is this what the "left" wants? Isn't it about looking at law in light of society and making decisions that balance law and practice?


Y'all, everyone wants somebody to agree with them. Especially if they're on the Supreme Court. That's just realism.
on Nov 16, 2004
Reply #40 By: Myrrander - 11/16/2004 9:32:35 AM
Judges need not follow the GOP party line. If a judge looks at an anti-abortion bill and calls it unconstitutional because it is, then so be it. They've done their job. If they look at the same bill and decide to implement a totally different set of rules because they know better than the legislature, then they are activist


Dear merciful god in heaven. I cleaned all the bullshit off this response and found this: Liberal judges bad. Conservative judges good. Liberal interpretation of the law: erroneous. Conservative interpretation of the law: infallible. The use of 'abortion' as your example gave you away.


That's a cop out Myrrander, and you know it.

I'll give a non-abortion example.

Three strikes laws. A repeat offender comes before a judge and the judge decides that the third strike is being applied for a crime that isn't worthy, though it is covered by the law. The judge sets aside the guilty verdict and/or plea and lets the offender walk, even though the offender has broken the law repeatedly, and even though said repeat offenses were exactly what the three strikes law was supposed to cover.

That is an activist judge. They've decided that they know better than the legislature what the law was intended to do, and they've taken their will and over-riden the law.

Any time a judge decides they can make their own rules as they go, it's bad. I don't care if the rules are anti-abortion or pro-abortion. Anti-gun or pro-gun. Pro-education and or anti-education. Pro-taxes or no-taxes.

Lets put it this way, I would be most unhappy if a judge decided tomorrow that they knew better than the legislature and they decided it was OK to ban abortion, or it was ok to require parental notification even if the law doesn't require it. Judges are not supposed to make laws, even if the laws are in agreement with my political view or my own morals. I don't care if the results would be considered a win for conservatives or not.

You can try to paint it the way you did, but you'd be wrong.
on Nov 16, 2004
Reply #39 By: CrispE - 11/16/2004 8:32:50 AM
Terpfan:

Saying that Specter would be welcomed by the Democratic Party is a weak argument because both parties would "welcome" anyone jumping sides....liberal, moderate, or conservative so the reality is that past history has nothing to do with that.


Again, un true.

You can't tell me there is anyway in hell that the Democrats would welcome David Duke. The Republicans don't want him either, and have even gone so far as to help elect Democrats to keep him from winning office while parading around with a Republican label.

The Democrats would never welcome Ashcroft given his views. He'd have to totally repudiate his views before he'd ever be welcome as part of the Democrat family.

There are plenty of people on either side that would find they'd have a tough time being welcomed by the other party. Specter is not one of those people. He could very easily slide into the Democratic party without having to denounce any past votes or positions.
on Nov 16, 2004
Terpfan:

I meant to say in the Senate. Yes, there are a few (Thune, DeMint, Coburn come to mind) who wouldn't be acceptable but 3 out of 55 is a pretty small percentage. As for the Democrats switching, I can't think of any that the Republicans wouldn't welcome so 3 out of 97. That's a pretty good case. Or can you think of others?
on Nov 16, 2004
Reply #44 By: CrispE - 11/16/2004 5:39:03 PM
Terpfan:

I meant to say in the Senate. Yes, there are a few (Thune, DeMint, Coburn come to mind) who wouldn't be acceptable but 3 out of 55 is a pretty small percentage. As for the Democrats switching, I can't think of any that the Republicans wouldn't welcome so 3 out of 97. That's a pretty good case. Or can you think of others?


There's a few Democrat senators that the Republicans might have a hard time accepting. Robert Byrd (WV) has his past history as a Klansman (which he's never really renounced). Ted Kennedy has a long history of being on the very liberal end of the spectrum. Boxer is so far to the left that she'd be a tough sell as a potential Republican. Fienstein tends to be a bit on the shrill side. Hillary Clinton is most obviously a no starter.

Back on the Republican side, I'm sure there are a few others that might not be easy to accept without some serious back pedaling by the potential switcher. Your list isn't bad for starters. Honestly, I'd expect Hatch might find it difficult (though not impossible). Lott would be tough, given that the Democrats basically villified him for his "inappropriate" praise of Strom Thurmond. Santorum would be considered too conservative. Nickles and Kyl might be tough to pull in given their conservative credentials.


There's a chart (click here for link) that ranks from "liberal" to "conservative". It's based on the current congress, but it's not far off.

on Nov 16, 2004
terpfan:

Thanks for the link. Like I said, I think both parties probably don't think anyone would switch but would mostly accept someone so inclined. I don't expect Sepcter to change but rather to fight and lose the chairmanship. Everyday gets a bit darker for his chances and Bush is not in a concilatory mood.
on Nov 19, 2004
Update.

Apparently Republicans don't care for the taste of chicken.

Cheers,
Daiwa
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