OR: More News From the Out of Touch
Published on October 11, 2004 By CrispE In Politics
"I think the price is above what's justified by the fundamentals of the marketplace," John Snow said. "It's out of line with the fundamentals, and there will be a movement back toward the fundamentals, which means a lower price."

John Snow, Secretary of the Treasury, is George Bush's point man on the economy who seems to think (noting the quote above) that oil is overvalued relative to the supply and demand in the worldwide economic system. The oil market this morning reacted to this revelation by rising by as much as another 1% and there is no sense among the traders that prices will slip any time in the near future. Once again we see Bush advisors who don't seem to understand the problems created by an increasingly tenuous and dangerous international situation.

It is interesting that Mr. Snow seems to be echoing the Saudis who are a seemingly broken record of "we will increase production, we will increase production, we will increase production." However the truth is that the Saudis and OPEC have seldom had U.S. interests in mind when it comes to the oil situation. Remember when OPEC said they wanted to produce to a oil target of between $20 and $25 per barrel?

Now, you should understand by now from living in a free market economy that when oil is over $50 that OPEC companies make twice as much money, right? I mean, does it make sense if you could sell your house for $200,000 that you would want to sell it for $100,000? How about a car company that sells you the new Porsche Boxster for $50,000 when someone will pay $100,000 for it?

A deeper problem exists though in the perception that the Bush administration has that government should simply be a tax reduction system. It was noted in the debates last week that Bush has not vetoed a spending bill in 4 years. It was not noted that tax reduction, at first good for the middle class in terms of the marriage penalty tax elimination has not helped the middle class since with the exception of those with large families. My own return increased by $40 last year.

Meanwhile, the government runs billions more into debt, increasingly lowering the dollar's value around the world and making oil even more expensive. But, the Bush administration got passed even more tax reductions for businesses just today.

When you look at the concept of government as a business it is not unlike any other. That is, it has a range of product and services and in order to be successful it must be responsive to the people that use it's products and services and to the shareholders (that is you and me).

The first key to success in that sense is respect for the taxpayer. But this administration, when challenged on the budget or on spending acts as if you are not entitled to your opinion. How dare you challenge the White House on the budget? Don't you know we are in a war? Don't you know that we are the boss and that you are just a user of governmental services?

You might get the idea that it is the citizen who is the terrorist when we don't give blind support to the Bush policies that have led us where we are. More and more economists tell us that oil prices over $50 is disasterous for us. More and more know that without cutting the deficit we will pass on trillions of dollars of debt to our grandchildren and wreak any chance of social security lasting much longer.

Meanwhile, the Bush administration is supposedly working on more tax cuts for W's political base, the ones with incomes over $200,000.

Does anyone see how disasterous this would be?


Comments (Page 3)
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on Oct 11, 2004
we have been very spoiled here as far as energy costs go


this is very true -- increasing fuel efficiency standards might not bring the cost down, but we'd be paying less in the long run -- starting with Clinton, cars started getting worse and worse gas mileage, and this has bit us in the ass
on Oct 11, 2004
Myrrander (Tongue slightly in cheek):

Now we all know Mr. Bush is the: (chose any 5): A) Peace President, The Personal Responsibility President C) The Man "Who Made Us Safe" President D) The "We're Working Hard and Harder" President, E) The "No Business Lobbyist Left Behind" President.

No one ever accused W of being a business guy. Although he does have lumber company shares to sell you... Need any wood?
on Oct 11, 2004
He owns a lumber company? That's news to ME!
on Oct 11, 2004
starting with Clinton, cars started getting worse and worse gas mileage, and this has bit us in the ass


Are you kidding Cars have always gotten bad gas mileage?

We need to stick it to the Car Companies and to hell with Kerry / Bush and the SUV driving crowd, they are part of the problem by driving low gas mileage vehicles.

- GX

on Oct 11, 2004
mm, bachelors from Yale, MBA from Harvard. Governer of Texas, President of the US.


An appeal to authority?

tsk, tsk
on Oct 11, 2004
Are you kidding Cars have always gotten bad gas mileage?


What I meant was, that cars continually got more efficient until the Clinton years. Then fuel efficiency standards started slacking off again, despite technological advances.
on Oct 11, 2004
"That's like saying Ubisoft controls the flow of how many Political Machine or WinCustomize CDs are sold by JoeUser, right?"

I don't understand the comment -- I don't know enough about the software business.

KBR is a wholly owned subsidiary of Halliburton. They are in no sense a separate company.

It was stated that Halliburton doesn't drill oil, that they don't sell oil, so they couldn't have an oil stockpile. In fact, they are contractually allowed to drill oil, sell it, and distribute it. Logically, then, Halliburton could have a stockpile, and the original assertion that they couldn't was inaccurate.

That said, I have no opinion on whether they do in fact have an oil stockpile.
on Oct 11, 2004
"You know, Baker, I just read your post where you claim that your facts are always smooth and tight.


Liar. I never said my facts are always smooth and tight. I can proudly say I don't churn out point-and-click flamebait by the dozen, though...

" And yet the best you can give me is that I'm stupid? "


Would be curious to see where I called you stupid, crunchy. I was making the point that it is damn silly to pretend that someone who graduated from Yale, Harvard, and has been a sitting President and Governer somehow just doesn't have the innate grasp of business and politics that you do... Overblown, maybe? Egomaniacal? Possibly. I never called you stupid, or intended to imply it, though...




on Oct 11, 2004
Baker Street

You ask a good question. How did George W. get into Yale? Even better, how does one get into Harvard Grad School with a "C" Average? I have been in contact with George's old Prof from Harvard (Econ) and he said George W. was a POOR student and had ideas that made no sense. How did he become an Officer in the Air Guard? Daddy!!!

How did George W. get into his two oil companies? Not only did he not succeed but the issue of where his investors came from is a great question. The same thing is true about how he got the 2% of the Texas Rangers. He became Governor because of his father and his connections. We all know how he got into the White House- about 20,000 voters in Florida were confused by the ballot and he became president. If you changed the name on his resume up to the point he wangled the Governorship of Texas, he would have ,at best ,been a manager in a WaWa market!
on Oct 11, 2004
About KBR

KBR provides a wide range of engineering, construction, operations and maintenance, logistics and project management services to three markets: upstream, downstream and government & infrastructure.

The upstream sector includes oil and gas production facilities, pipelines, gas processing and liquefied natural gas production facilities and receiving terminals.

Downstream includes oil refining, petrochemicals, synthetic gas and fertilizer production facilities.

KBR’s government operations business provides a broad range of services to the military and civilian branch of governments around the world.

Infrastructure includes a wide range of facilities and services; including roads, airports, railroads and buildings, and coordinating and planning major events.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

KBR's Services [LINK]

From Services page:

Procurement
KBR Worldwide Procurement Operations is widely recognized by our customers and suppliers as a leader in our industry. KBR Procurement includes purchasing, materials management, expediting, inspection and logistics for the KBR Houston, Leatherhead, Singapore and MWKL offices, as well as KBR Government Services. While "procurement" is generally viewed as a money spending activity, KBR Procurement also focuses on cost savings and reductions that in 2002 resulted in documented savings for our customers in the amount of $89,546,396. This exceeded our target for the year by 48.62 percent. Procurement is traditionally a highly- visible activity for our customers, and KBR Procurement is keenly aware that our performance will have a significant impact on the success of a project and ultimately customer satisfaction. Our Procurement service is currently a part of all KBR product lines and is a service that can be provided as part of a specific product line or on a stand-alone basis to our customers.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I am looking at Halliburton's KBR site where does it say they sell oil directly like Exxon, Shell and Mobil, Blogic? Where oh where Blogic (not trying to be sarcastic just want to find it)? Where am I missing the bit about KBR selling oil, after all there is alot of information there and you found it so I just need to know where it is.

- GX
on Oct 11, 2004
Flamebait? *laugh*

Does flamebait mean "anything BakerStreet doesn't agree with?" Feel oh so free to flame away, dear sir. You've done it to me on everyone else's threads tonight, I invite you to do it to my own. *shrug*
on Oct 11, 2004
"Where oh where Blogic"

You'll see I included the link in the comment in which I first brought it up. Regarding the distribution and selling of oil, you can also google "kbr iraq pentagon probe oil" -- you'll find plenty.
on Oct 11, 2004
http://www.halliburton.com/news/archive/2004/article_092804.jsp

Here's what I see from the New York Times that Halliburton got permission to reprint on their site, to get the original article post from the NY Times you have to pay $1.65 (uh, not me.)

Moveon Pac ad says administration gave contracts "on a silver platter," but government investigators say otherwise. [LINK]

Cheney & Edwards Mangle Facts: Getting it wrong about combat pay, Halliburton, and FactCheck.org [LINK] - Little info on the Halliburton deal though.

Halliburton owns KBR and KBR may be getting oil from Iraq but the original assumption that if Halliburton would let it's oil reserves out than prices would go down is wrong, if KBR is getting oil it is only from Iraq, and the whole problem with oil prices is alot larger than just Iraq and Halliburton has no control over the prices, now do they?

Speaking of which don't we still have US Oil Reserves or Supply holds (not Oil Fields) with something like 10 year old oil stocked up in them?

- GX

on Oct 11, 2004
I don't think it's quite 10 years worth, but I could be wrong.
on Oct 11, 2004
Not 10 years worth, I am talking that the oil in them is 10 years old in age.

- GX
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