OR: Underneath The Surface Lies All of the Substance
Published on June 21, 2004 By CrispE In Politics
The current daily loss of life in the "Middle East Experience" (Iraq, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, etc.) seems to be weighing less and less heavily upon the psyche of the American mind as, much like a Shakespearean tragedy the body bags and parts add up. American newscasts spend more time talking about the "American Idol" Experience or whether Tiger Woods is in a slump than doing any real in-depth coverage of what is now considered old hat.

But below the surface of the matter we see an evolution of the struggle between those who think we are involved in another Viet Nam (no clearly defined purposes or exit strategy and a vaguely humanitarian reasoning for what we would like to do there) and those whom are sure we are there for a real, strategic purpose that scares most everyone not in agreement with it (including the people who live there).

The first group might remember that Lyndon Johnson talked about turning the Mekong River in Viet Nam into a Tennessee Valley Authority project, educating the children of the Southeast Asia region (Thailand, Cambodia, Viet Nam, Indonesia) and making capitalism and democracy the by-words of prosperous countries. As the Viet Nam war roared on into the late 60's and this dream became less and less likely we talked more and more about how communism would overtake the region if we didn't keep control until finally we got sick of the whole mess, didn't care if it became communist or not and vacated in the early 70's.

So, when we hear visions from the neocons saying we must establish secular democratic states in the Middle East and allow capitalism to flourish by overcoming the forces of communism, excuse me, Islamic terrorism, we may hear the echos of not so long ago.

Of course, to the surface view, communism did overtake Southeast Asia so the hardliners in the 60's were in fact correct to an extent. What is under the surface is that it is far from the communist totalitarian regime set-up that was feared and most of that area is seeking now, 30 years later, what we tried so hard to force upon them then. The truth is that communism, even in China, which is not the only communist society but the most successful, the idea that Mao might wake up tomorrow and smile to know his vision for their society was going forward is ridiculous.

So, can we bring a vision of democracy and capitalism to the Middle East by what we are doing now? Here is where you have to look at the competing forces and ask 2 reasonable questions. First, who has the bigger stake in the future of the area? The U.S. says we want peace and prosperity but the people of the Middle East (even our friends like the Israelies and the Saudis) think we want oil and power. The so-called Road Map to Peace in Israel was ditched the moment the 2 sides started disagreeing and nothing the current Isreali unilateral approach would do has any relationship to what we proposed. The Saudis are deathly afraid of the U.S. because they live in a society where constant acts of terrorism by the government itself are the rule, so understanding how strong Al Queda is within their society should take little understanding. Time after time history has shown that massive military buildups in occupied lands does not lead to the people abandoning 1000's of years of THEIR history to become part of ours. They are the ones who were there, are there, and unless we intend to put them on reservations (the last time an occupying force achieved victory somewheres--just ask the American Indian) the current inhabitants are probably going to outlast us, regardless of how much we dislike them or their culture.

The second question is: Are we willing to spend the time, money and resources to achieve the victory we claim we want? This is where I think we are the weakest and most likely to fail. When we become less and less outraged by the daily body count it is the sign of the beginning of the shift towards wanting to get out of the situation. This happened in Viet Nam also. Daily tolls of life became more and more a reminder of our failure to achieve anything. Questioning of policy led to a greater and greater sense of change being needed. One might forget but the election of 1968 saw Richard Nixon (the peace candidate) beat Hubert Humphrey (the Vice President war candidate) by the slimest of margins. We weren't ready as Americans to spend the 70's fighting the war in Viet Nam. Today we have almost a mirror. Kerry (the peace candidate) takes on Bush (the war candidate) to see if we are willing to spend hundreds of billions of dollars, the next 10 years, and thousands of American lives trying to outlast the organic society that the Arabs have been running for as long as anyone can remember.

Are you willing to bet we can win?

Comments
on Jun 21, 2004
The problem is the same as Viet Nam where the U.S. was "committed" to staying as long as necessary to achieve winning the peace and routing out the "corruption" of the Viet Namese government. The U.S. is committed only so long as we have the willpower to spend our time, money and troops. U.S. "will to succeed" fades over time and changes in government. Maybe in 2004 but no later than 2008 the U.S. will change administrations and then the new administration will talk about "Mr. Bush's war" and not their own.

I think the terrorists got the time to wait us out. Remember, in Afghanistan they waited the Russians out for more than 10 years.
on Jun 22, 2004
Here's a question for a Free Mind: what's wrong with America being an Imperial Power? That is, instead of acting in foreign policy on the basis of a half-assed combination of humanitarian impulse and commercial greed (not only half-assed but ashamed of itself) why not honestly do what every other world dominating power has done throughout history? Exert itself in its own perceived interest vigorously and without shame. And here's an answer that such a Free Mind might pose to that question: Americans have no idea how to rule. Why have Americans no idea how to rule? Because the combination of Protestant piety with Liberal Individualism (and no, I'm not taking about the current of licentious individualism that passes for liberalism in America today), which is a part of the American ethic of limited government undermines the honest ruthlessness that is the necessary foundation for effective rulership and good governance.

America is presently the world's only 'super-power' - but it is not and never will be the world's sovereign (though it could make itself so if it tried). Since the world has no sovereign to keep order among the individual nations (globalisation is a commercial phenomenon and a product of Adam Smith's 'guiding hand', not the result of active political policy) they, the nations, stand in regard to each other as individual people do - that is, without a greater force than each possess alone to control them they exist in a state of violent coercion, one of the other, where each seeks to exploit temporary advantages. There is no innate 'moral imperative' in either the life of individuals or nations that makes them 'good'. There is only appetite, strength, and will.

America has the strength, undoubtedly. It commands by far the greatest per centage of the world's available military and economic resources. And what does it use them for? Rebuilding the shattered ruins of the enemies it has conquered, in hopes of inviegling them into an 'empire by another name', its network of commercial interests. In order to avoid the difficult question of what to do with a conquered province it seeks to make it a partner in a commercial enterprise and hopes that, somehow, everything will work out for the good (whose good? What good?) in the end.

Commerce is not rule. Rule is the direct imposition of will - and America has no national will other than to turn a tidy profit, and to do so bloodlessly wherever possible.

The U.S. says we want peace and prosperity but the people of the Middle East (even our friends like the Israelies and the Saudis) think we want oil and power.


What's wrong with wanting power and oil, and doing everything possible to secure them? What's wrong with imposing, by force, a Pax Americana?

on Jun 22, 2004
http://www.amconmag.com/2004_06_21/article.html
An interesting article on the matter
on Jun 22, 2004
apollyon exterminans:
The issue you raise is the extreme degree of the question of what we are willing to do to get what we want. I honestly don't see either the will to do what you suggest nor the inclination of the rest of the world to let us. Sooner or later (probably sooner) the many countries that have nuclear weapons would see such aggression as you suggest as the ultimate lose-lose situation and would rather risk the end of civilization than to see your vision realized.
Foreign policy is 2/3 politics and 1/3 strength in military willingness to act. The U.S. has a foreign policy of peaceful non-aggression wherever possible as long as the U.S. is not under direct threat. This is because ultimately we believe that capitalism is a stronger force for change than armies. Abandoning that belief would take a severe shift in politics and perhaps a more totalitarian government where the people would lose most of their rights. It would certainly be the end of the form of society we currently have.

Is that what you are suggesting?
on Jun 22, 2004
historyishere:
Very good article, thanks for sharing it. Apollyon exterminans, please take time to peruse this article as it is germane to your point. It is a bit long but much of the first 1/3 can be scanned as it is a general examination of the history of single world power states.
Of course, the one major point that the article really doesn't address is how the American system of government and society would have to change to accomodate a foreign policy that nudged the world into a "democracy because we say so" world and that there will be democracy, even in Iraq is highly debateable.
Thanks again for the link!
on Jun 22, 2004
no clearly defined purposes or exit strategy and a vaguely humanitarian reasoning for what we would like to do there


There is a clearly defined purpose and exit strategy. The purpose is to provide security for Iraq until an Iraqi security force can take over completely, and the exit strategy is for Iraqis to gradually take over security duties from US soldiers.

Time after time history has shown that massive military buildups in occupied lands does not lead to the people abandoning 1000's of years of THEIR history to become part of ours.


Japan. Italy. South Korea.

on Jun 22, 2004
Madine:
How do define "take over completely"? Does it make sense to hand over control when our own troops a) can't keep the peace and terrorists commit daily atrocities? Or do you believe when we do handover control they will suddenly go "oh, that's better, the Iraqis are in charge, let's stop." Somehow the idea of that being the purpose of us being there doesn't work either. As for the exit strategy, I have seen no statements from the administration giving any kind of timetable for the U.S. pulling troops out, i.e. an exit strategy.
Japan has not abandoned her culture although I will grant you it is more democratic since WWII. Italy was not occupied for long and was rebuilt but the traditions of the Western Europeans are roughly the same now as they were before the war. Remember, Mussolini was elected as was Hitler. South Korea was not the enemy and I wouldn't give the South Korean army 6 months against the North Koreans.
The key is that we said we were going because of WMD's and to remove Saddam. But as we found out in Viet Nam, winning a war is not the same as winning a peace. Our troops are hands down the best open combat fighters in the world, but very vulnerable to a guerilla war fought on the guerillas' home turf. So we either need to fight the first type or accept we are going to lose this battle over time.
on Jun 23, 2004
How do define "take over completely"?


I would define it as the US military is not responsible for day to day security operations other than US property.

As for the exit strategy, I have seen no statements from the administration giving any kind of timetable for the U.S. pulling troops out, i.e. an exit strategy.


A timetable is not the same thing as a strategy. The timing will depend on how much violence there is and how long it takes the Iraqi security forces to become capable of dealing with that violence.

Mussolini was elected as was Hitler


Mussolini was not really elected to the national leadership. He was appointed by the king.

Italy was not occupied for long


We still have bases in Italy.

South Korea was not the enemy


I think they were a puppet state of Japan, so technically they were. Does it matter though?

But as we found out in Viet Nam, winning a war is not the same as winning a peace.


Winning the peace is a misnomer. If there was peace, we would be winning. The problem is the violence. If the violence in Iraq wasn't so bad, Iraq would be in very good shape.